Not only has Mary Leay written hit songs for well-known artists, but she is also a co-developer of ‘Mamas in Music’, an organisation that provides essential resources, opportunities and support to Mother’s in the music industry.
Read the interview below (15 min read)
We all have to start somewhere. When looking back on your songwriting journey, do you find yourself ‘cringing’ at your early repertoire? (I feel like this is a universal experience for songwriters, including myself!).
I used to feel ‘cringed’ out. Every new song you write, you think it’s the best thing you’ve ever written. I think, that as I’ve grown older, I try to look at those original songs with fondness and kindness because they are all part of the evolution of me and my journey as a writer. I can now listen to them with a warm-hearted feeling, and I can still hear that the melodies coming out are the beginnings of my identity in a way. So I hold onto that. I think lyrically it’s harder to listen to, because it’s quite comical. But generally, there’s a lot of love for it.
You have been incredibly successful as a songwriter, writing songs for major artists like Cher and Becky Hill; to name but a few. How did these opportunities come about?
They came in a flurry, really. Basically, I’d been an artist for quite a while and had secured management and publishing after many years of hard graft and endless gigs, working with bands and touring and all sorts of things. It’s an integral part of the learning process, but I think I was being managed by Crown, and it got to a point where I was becoming very analytical about the songwriting process. I started to really listen to commercial songs and become very hyper aware, and yeah, I think around that time, I started working with an old friend, Tim Powell. He was a key member of Xenomania, and wrote for a lot of the girlbands in the 00’s. He got me involved in working for the groups coming out of X factor, which was my first introduction to commercial writing. As it happens, the very first cut was writing for Cher, a song called ‘Take it Like a Man’. It was full circle moment because I actually demoed the vocal for one of her big hits, ‘Do you believe’.
Signing a publishing deal is often the ultimate goal for budding songwriters. How did you secure yours? Was it as arduous as it is often seems?
Publishing is a very strange and alien world for a lot of people. I didn’t know the meaning of publishing, or what that was. It took a long time to figure out, to be honest. I got my deal through having those song cuts under my belt. You need a publishing deal for two things in this world. One, for opportunity, and two, for money. If you don’t need either, then I would wait as long as possible to sign a publishing deal because you need to have clout, and that leverage to be able to negotiate a good deal and get yourself a healthy advance. I had a music lawyer who put me in the room with various independent publishers. At the time, I signed with Big Life, who merged with Reservoir. It’s a timely message as I’m no longer with Reservoir. I am currently unpublished, which is a fairly refreshing state to be in. It leaves me with a sense of new opportunity. That is the short answer, and I would advise anyone to get a music lawyer as they can help you find the best deal and negotiate the contract.
Songwriters, in the modern world, often find themselves juggling many plates, as networking and social media promotion remain an important factor in scheduling co-writes and sessions. How have you sought to navigate this modern reality?
I think it’s a very, very fine balance. I’m finding it very difficult at the moment, if I’m being open. I have a daughter who is just about to turn six years old. The juggle is notoriously difficult, and extra difficult for women, and even more difficult for woman with children. Parents in general, really. Although there are nuances and complexities around that. We are still in an industry that makes it difficult for women trying to return to work. The truth is, it is a constant juggle. I don’t think I ever get it completely right. Yet, I’m switched on all the time. A lot of my work happens late at night after I put my daughter to bed, which isn’t a particularly healthy place to be, but that’s the reality. I think it’s a different world for a young or breaking artist to navigate with social media because it’s such an integral part of the journey now. For me, when I was an artist and tying to ‘make it’, as it were, it was all about live performance, and the drive was to create audiences and industry attention. I think social media now, almost takes over the creative aspect. Boundaries are needed to channel the organic creation so that you’re not losing sight of why you’re making music in the first place. I think that goes for writers as well. Everybody is so obsessed with how things appear on social media, and whilst it is a tool that I find useful, I have to be mindful about the time I spend on there. I tend to move conversations with producers and writers to WhatsApp. I think everyone is doing their best. We’re up against a lot of challenges, as it stands. I don’t think I have the answer, but I’m on the grind like everybody else, doing my best.
As an accomplished songwriter, what is your number one piece of advice?
I’m not sure I am an accomplished songwriter. I’m not sure what that really looks like. We’re all writers and on a journey. Whilst I have had some success, that doesn’t mean I’m not questioning and trying to find missing pieces. My best advice is to do what I’m doing write now. Hone your craft, find your tribe, find the people that you feel good with in the room. That’s key, actually. Writing by yourself is an important, beautiful and meditative tool, but I think if you’re trying to write hit songs, then find your people who make you shine and make you feel great. It’s so much more fun to write with other humans. Often it takes three, four, five people to take an idea to hit-level territory. I think it’s a nicer journey to do that with other writers. Find your favourite producers and writers and learn from them. Naturally, being in those environments, you grow as a writer and you learn things by testing yourself and pushing yourself. I hope that helps. We’re all on the path. Everyone is looking for this one secret thing, this missing piece. I don’t think it’s that at all. I think it’s about putting yourself out there and letting the universe do its thing.
You spent a lot of time writing in Nashville with other songwriters and artists (JEALOUS!). We’re interested to know how the industry in Nashville differs from the UK?
Nashville is an incredible writng community. The main difference is that everybody there is a writer. The UK, although it’s a very small industry and quite an incestuous one, it’s quite a privilege to be a writer, here. In Nashville, you soon realise, that every waiter or uber driver is a writer, or claims to be a writer. It’s almost part of their DNA. That creates a really wonderful atmosphere and energy, but it can swallow you up a little. It’s so competitive that you don’t necessarily have the opportunities unless you’re well-connected. It feels like a huge pond. However, it’s an experience everybody should be able to have. Being there and connecting with other writers is a vital experience. They also tend to work much more efficiently in Nashville. There’s a culture in the UK of starting late, finishing late, hanging around and being ‘Rock n Roll’. They see it as a 9-5 job in Nashville, starting sessions at 10am and finish by 3pm. They might exercise afterwards, socialise, or spend time with the kids. That tends to suit a lot of families, and mum’s and dads in the industry, but particularly for women. It gives them more flexibility, as childcare still falls largely onto the women’s shoulders, something like 90%.
So let’s say I’m an unsigned writer and I’ve written what I believe to be a hit song. What are my next steps?
Firstly, I think that’s great. I think you’d have a long way to go, though. To be able to just take a song to a publisher that hasn’t been released…the whole purpose of a publisher’s job, or label’s job, is to help propel an artists career. The way the industry functions now…if you went with one song, they’d say ‘we love it, can you write a 100 more?’. So it’s important to have a back catalogue that is consistent and healthy. You need to know who you are as a writer. What’s your language? What do you care about? What do you want to say? How is that different to everybody else who is doing it? How consistent are you? What’s your fanbase like? How do you speak to your fanbase? What are your numbers? Are you putting out content daily? Sadly, these are often more important questions. Even more so than the actual songs. That’s the easy part, the rest of it appears to be the dust we must wipe away to get through to the good stuff. The first step might be to create your own platform, do it all yourself. I hate saying that, because everybody needs help. But do as much as you possibly can on your own, build your identity and grow your fanbase. It’s important to be able to write 50-100 songs that have consistency and a clear identity with confidence and concepts. If you were to go to a publisher to try and get published, they want to recoup an advance. They want to be able to make profit. They’re like a bank, really. If a song goes viral on TikTok, you might get signed. However, if you’re an artist looking for longevity, I wouldn’t be in a rush to sign to a publisher. I would focus on getting a good manager and agent and getting some material out there.
What do you value most in a good song?
It might sound obvious, but a song has to hit me in the heart, in some way. Whether it makes me feel something emotionally, or makes me want to move, or lifts me up. I walked past a biker delivering food the other day, he had his radio on, a song came on, I think it was a Lewis Capaldi song. Hearing it out in the open lifted me up. I love a big chorus, a significant rise in melody for a chorus. Lyrically, I want it to say something I haven’t heard before. I want to hear a phrase that makes me go, ‘yeah, that’s so true’. Find the most interesting way to say the simplest thing. Melody has to hit me in the heart, and if I don’t feel it, it’s a ‘meh’.
How has the music industry changed in the time you’ve been a published songwriter?
I signed my deal before covid and as I became pregnant. So I’ve witnessed first-hand the shift post both of those major events! The struggle for mothers is real. Covid meant a lot of creative women (and men) in music had the rug pulled from underneath them overnight. Personally, I realised as a lower earner / less predictable earner in our household, my default became caregiver first, songwriter second. That was a really strange place to be having worked so very hard to get my publishing deal and opportunities. Covid meant people in music started to stay in close circles. I felt people were less likely to take risks to work with new writers and whilst some were making and keeping hold of existing relationships, others were gatekeeping and keeping doors closed. I think it also massively revealed the juggle of being a mother and trying to maintain a career in music. Just how impossible that felt at times. A lot of wonderful things have come from that though. The birth of Mamas In Music for one!
Billboard reported $20k / £16k as the average annual wage gap between male and female musicians, with mothers experiencing a wider disparity due to work interruptions after childbirth. This statement was taken from the non-profit organisation, ‘Mamas in Music’, developed by Tiff Randol and yourself. Can you expand on your motivations behind this project? It seems like a fantastic cause!
MiM was created just before lockdown and it started as a wonderful bond with Tiff Randol. A fellow new mum. We were introduced and instantly connected on the lack of mothers we knew in the industry. We both felt quite alone. I realised I was so underprepared for this experience and hadn’t even contemplated what it would be like going back to a career of writing. We started organically and this beautiful community started and it’s just grown and grown and now is a global community of mamas who are all on this journey of trying to re-write the narrative of our industry. That mothers can thrive, they can succeed in a career, they can tour, write, run a business and have kids. But they need support, finance, fair music contracts, they need the industry to celebrate them, nurture them, protect them and value them. That is still not the case. Too many terrible stories of mamas being dropped, horror stories of women being told “you can’t do it now you’re pregnant, it won’t look right.” It’s 2025 and we are still listening to an outdated narrative about what we can and can’t do. We’re still fighting that fight. MiM was set up to be the voice to advocate for those mamas. To help advance their careers when others might not and to give them a platform and a place to feel heard. But also to be working hard to rewire the industry so that we work towards putting procedures and structures in place so future generations of music mamas get to go forward with confidence that their industry will cherish and support them.
Do you think a career in music is more difficult in 2025?
More difficult? Possibly, yes. TikTok plays a major part in that. It is a beast that dictates a lot and I wish it wasn’t that way but I think it comes with the territory. I think we need to be more in control of our own production as songwriters so we can write with artists without the control of a producer who often never shares stems etc. I think artists have it tough and need to realise it’s not enough just to have talent or some good songs. It’s a rat race for us all. Songwriters have had their say and need to be paid, need to be paid for their services in sessions if a label is involved with budget. Though having had these frustrations laid bare I’ve noticed it has created a level of bitterness and sometimes bad taste and that doesn’t serve creativity well at all. So it’s all about balance. I just want to be part of something wonderful and for everyone to be seen and heard!
Lastly, where can people find you online?
@MaryLeay and @MamasinMusic (Instagram)
